Lap dancing clubs banned from residential areas of Cheltenham - but still allowed in town centre
| Posted: October 13, 2014
Councillors have voted in favour of banning the clubs in residential areas
A bid to ban lap dancing clubs across all of Cheltenham was defeated by the narrowest of margins – but the venues will be outlawed in the town’s residential areas.
Cheltenham Borough Council debated for more than three and a half hours whether or not to completely prohibit the clubs.
An attempt by some councillors to impose a zero limit on the entire town was defeated by 19 votes to 18.
Councillors then voted by 25 votes to nine in favour of allowing the clubs in the town centre but not in residential areas.
Councillor Andrew McKinlay (LD, Up Hatherley), the cabinet member responsible for development and safety, said the policy that was agreed was the best way forward for the town.
He said: "It's perfectly reasonable to set a nil limit in residential areas to give people confidence that they will not be subjected to one of these applications and that the council would take a negative view of any such application.
"I know this is an emotive subject with strong opinions on all sides.
"But things are not as black and white as people seem to think.
"If you approve this policy you're not necessarily opening the floodgate to sexual entertainment venues because it will still be in the hands of the licensing committee to turn down an application."
He added: "You're better off legalising and regulating than saying 'no' outright and having similar behaviour going on under the table that's illegal."
Councillor Flo Clucas (LD, Swindon Village) made the case for a complete ban of the clubs which she said have a negative impact on men and women.
"We are not dealing with the current situation,” she said during the meeting at the Municipal Offices this afternoon.
"I know people will say we aren't having any problems with the existing club.
"But what we are dealing with is the potential for having one, two, four, six clubs in a small area.
"I want to ensure that... girls can walk safely through the streets of our town without having an escort at all times."
She said choosing not to impose a zero limit risked Cheltenham "being brought into disrepute" within five years.
Councillor Max Wilkinson (LD, Park) said he was neither pro nor anti lap dancing clubs but is in “favour of choice” for consenting adults.
He said: “Banning things you do not like might seem like a simple solution to life’s ills but it will not solve the problems.”
73 comments
Worthy of mention is one of the results of a recent study by Professor Philip Hubbard and Dr Rachela Colosi from the University of Kent and Lincoln respectively. " Sexualisation, nuisance and safety: Sexual Entertainment Venues and the management of risk". "Our study did not uncover any evidence that these clubs cause more nuisance or crime than other night-time venues"
Aman I have no doubt women have problems but blaming clubs without any proof based on assumptions is not the answer. Said before clubs will lower objectification, looking at a woman you might feel desire (be surprised if you didn't) but once you start to talk to them you see them as human beings. Objectification is much more likely to occur with those who go to night clubs as they feel an entitlement to sex where as in clubs with the no touching you learn self control around women. So you see clubs are beneficial to women, I have no proof that clubs may decrease rape but that is what the figures show in Newquay and in the London Borough of Camden. Enough to make you think.
If you're in doubt as to what the average woman has to put up with on a daily basis and why they want to stop clubs like this opening in order to change male views on the opposite sex then check out http://tinyurl.com/q6yg9p5
Lelly love the assumptions, you assume that I am a MRA when in fact I would consider myself an egalitarian. I know many feminists, most of them are dancers though which no doubt means you would believe they can't be feminists because of their work? I have no preconceived concepts of what a feminist should be like, having debated some in the past online I know the broad brush stroke that feminism can encompass. The problem is that there is no empirical data to support that clubs causes issues and some feminists operate on a belief system rather than a fact system. All the data I have seen show the majority of dancers enjoy their work and even with all the fees etc the average earning is £240 a shift (Leeds Research 2009). The dancers get to work shifts that suit some women much better than the normal nine to five or shop work which allows them to do their masters or other post grad courses. Because guys can't touch we have to learn self control when around women which surely is a benefit for women that we are not grabby? And finally yes I am totally against TENs it does not protect dancers and is terrible dangerous. I would have less issues if TENs meant clubs and bars had to comply with the standards that apply to clubs. I would say that there is an estimated 10,000 dancers in the UK and the incidence of those coming out of the industry is minimal. Apart from the book by Danns which was co-authoured by Object (so is a little suspect) there are not many dancers that have left the industry that are speaking out. When you consider that probably between 500 and 1000 dancers retiring each year you could expect thousands speaking out if the dancers felt exploited or hurt by the industry. BUT yes as far as I am concerned dancers need protecting so clubs that are poorly managed should be shut but if a club is not having issues then freedom of choice to work in what is still a legal industry. If the industry was ever made illegal then it is a different story but till then left clubs open and close based on earnings and good management while we try to find ways to protect dancers including the review of TENs.
@lellyloo. Finally a great post!. It's a shame we couldn't find some more common ground earlier on in the conversation. We seem to actually agree on a lot of things. Ultimately this boils down to the power of money, and the unique power it has over people to do things that they don't enjoy. Personally I believe there will always be a tiny minority of women that will choose stripping/lap-dancing as a temporary job over working at ASDA for example. *A survey would be nice…. How many are working out of free choice and how many would rather be working in ASDA and so on?. Either way my point is that the tiny minority of women that DO CHOOSE such a job should be allowed to operate in the safest working environments.
Oh jeez. Back to the swingers clubs again. Nowt to do with the convo. Swingers clubs and casual sex can't be compared to lap dancing. Those are situations in which the people involved are on an equal footing, there is no power differential, one person is not waving dollar bills while the other dances like a performing monkey. I don't see you or anyone who goes to swingers clubs or hooks up with strangers through a dating website for casual sex as sexist or misogynist for doing so. I do see men who go to lap dancing clubs as sexist and misogynist because I think you have to have a certain view of women in order to do so. And I don't mean that they just find women so attractive! I find men attractive and sexy but I would never go to a male stripping night, I seriously would find it embarrassing for me, and embarrassing for the men dancing for tips and pretending they're attracted to the women in the audience for extra cash. Yes those men have chosen to do that as a job and they may well make some good money doing it but if I was there I would feel that I was exploiting and demeaning them. If I can feel this as a woman in a male dominated society, lord knows how none of you can feel it in a society in which what goes on in lap dancing clubs reflects what goes on in wider society. I don't think the conversation has turned ugly at all. I think you just have no sense of humour. Tony, I, just like yourself and most other human beings have the ability to maintain friendships with people whose opinions differ from mine. I realise as a MRA you think feminists hang around in big feministy groups, being lesbians and slagging off men, but we're actually real-life women with boyfriends, husbands, and male friends, most of which are feminists too, but some not (we're still educating those ones). The friend I referred to used the frequency loophole which allows venues to hold lap dancing/pole dancing nights with no license as long as they do it less than 12 times a year. As licensing, regulation and working conditions of the lap dancers seem to be the main concern of the men on this thread, I take it you'll be campaigning to abolish this loophole? Nah didn't think so.
@NoDiggory @lellyloo Firstly I am not trolling. I am here to try and highlight poor reasoning by others, and in doing so hopefully gain knowledge in the process. Sadly this conversation has slowly turned into something rather ugly. No one has bothered to answer my original point about having a safe working environment for people that provide such services. Just to clarify a few things I don't visit lap-dancing clubs or strip clubs, but occasionally visit swinger clubs *where no money changes hand and sometimes I get lucky and sometimes I don't. Personally I think the solution to the ethical problems created by paying for sexual services, is to create more venues where people can meet and enjoy sexual services for free. Swingers Clubs now regularly hold "single guy events" where men don't have to bring along a partner. Apps like Tinder now also make transaction free hook-ups/dates/casual sex even easier.
Interesting Lelly you have a male friend who hires women to dance at his bar and your still friends with him? Also I think you would actually find clubs that have regular customers there is a reduction in objectification, at first there is a level of it but no man can maintain objectification for any real long period of time especially once you start talking to the dancers. New guys to clubs are a different story and this I think is what applies to your "friend's" bar. And how did your friend bring in dancers legally without you fighting him over an SEV? Anyway point being is the clubs may actually have a benefit to women as I don't see women as objects, never really have, I have plenty of female friends who I look at without thinking about sex. I am not saying there are not guys out there who feel entitled but think you will find these are the guys who go to nightclubs, which is probably why there is a lot of sexual violence associated with night clubs in comparison to SEVs. Your first stop to get rid of objectification then is to close nightclubs I guess? And Nod I would use the other hand but the girlfriend had other plans for it (awaits the sad jokes about puncture repair kits). I noticed that those who were making the big claims about sexual crime around Fantasy never came back with any parameters on how they evaluated this like boundaries etc.
sleep tight @manraider - call me
NoDiggory - the mark downs that you speak of are nothing new and have been going on here for months. Initially they were attracted by just a few posters irrespective of their comments but then they then became more widespread. More likely the efforts of just one or two individuals so sadly your associated enjoyment is somewhat misplaced. Sorry to burst your bubble and goodnight!